I was Wrong About REIN

August 20th, 2010 · 34 Comments · REIN

A few days ago I wrote an article about How to Avoid Being Ripped Off In it I spoke about the Real Estate Investment Network as the place the victim met her predator. I was wrong. It appears that the victim met her predator at a free real estate investment seminar . Not surprisingly, attending such seminars is a popular pass time with people who are interested in real estate. I believe the predator in question claimed to be a REIN member but he is not. He also claimed to be a good guy and absconded with her money.

REIN Contacts Me

Since then I was contacted by a rather nice gentleman from REIN, who wanted me to change my initial post. I refused and gave him further details and we’ve been talking back and forth about it. I asked more questions of the victims and the post has now been edited. I could have left it at that…and preserved my ego. I’d rather be honest. REIN will verify any claims of membership if someone is claiming to be a member.

Ethics & House Cleaning

Furthermore, it appears that REIN actively kicks out members who take advantage of others and tries to resolve serious disputes. They seem to be very concerned about taking care that none of their members is victimized and that REIN be a safe place to learn and conduct business. They also have their code of ethics and a warning about due diligence regarding members, family and anyone you do business with. I didn’t ask if I could reproduce it on my blog so I won’t for now but it is a very nice guideline. The gentleman has also offered to assist our victim. It seems that REIN is very concerned about bad reports and press.

I get invited to an Event

I have also been invited to attend one of their functions so I could see it for myself. I will be going later on this year and will keep you posted on any further developments. So far I’m impressed. I’m not sure if you noticed, but I have a tendency to be suspicious and irritable at times, in this case I am pretty much completely wrong. I’ll also ask for help from REIN and see if we can stop this guy from ripping more people off.

Go Check REIN Out

If you want to go check REIN out yourself, you can sign up for their online forum. They are also giving away a free EBook about good areas to invest in for future appreciation.

If you liked this post, go directly to the nearest asylum, right after signing up for my free RSS and Email subscription. Today’s perk is sincere hope that all your deals be WIN-WIN that you save the $1800 for REIN membership and talk to the copious landlords who will tell you ad nauseum about their business for free!

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34 Comments so far ↓

  • lonelylimey

    I commend you on your honesty in correcting matters. Am I right in stating that you are or were a member of REIN?

    • Rachelle

      No, I’ve never been a member or even attended their event. I am registered for their public section of their online forum that’s it. I also read all of Don Cambell’s books some of which I could hardly read because of the mix of “positive thinking” mixed with real estate. I like my facts straight up.

      I also got their free real estate ebook. I am still on the fence about REIN but because they have quite a few members their name has become synonymous with real estate investing club which led to the initial mix up. (Kind of like you may say Kleenex instead of tissue) The victims did say REIN to me, one of them even had got hold of REIN’s guideline for buying. Once I asked them to tell me exactly where they met their predator it was at a free seminar in Toronto but because these events are held on a weekly basis the actual name of the seminar was lost. Lots of people new to Real Estate traipse around to lots of these kinds of events.

      Their membership is expensive IMHO but I have not seen what comes with membership I don’t know if it is good value or not. I felt much better about REIN when I found out the work that goes on behind the scenes to resolve bad situations. I will attend the event I was invited to. It may well be worth the membership fee if you consider the cost of other types of education such as university of college.

  • Mr. Cheap

    I was at an event where one of the REIN big-wigs talked and I was unimpressed. I suspect you’ll be less enthusiastic once you’ve dug int0 it…

    • Rachelle

      We’ll see Mr Cheap. I’m not thrilled with the quality of real estate teachings… I suspect that a new investor might be much better served by a REIN membership at $1800 than a six cd set and mentoring from a guru in the states for $5000 or so!

      I’m on the fence…

  • jesse

    My friend (apparently) learned of the “leaseback to avoid foreclosure scheme” through REIN but maybe I’m wrong. While maybe it’s not one’s definition a “scam” I think the ethics and morals are questionable on such schemes.

    If “scams” are only limited to where parties are both REIN attendees, that’s a bit too narrow a scope for my liking.

  • lonelylimey

    Glad to hear you’re not involved with REIN (yet).
    Oddly enough, Garth Turners blog today mentions the same group.

  • David

    There are a lot of things you can do without the assistance of REIN. You can learn a lot by either reading books or paying expensive membership fees.

  • QD

    Let me know which meeting you are going to and I will meet you there. It has been excellent for me and my real estate investments. In particular, I think it is extremely useful to people buying their first properties and actually willing to take action. You only get out of something what you put into it, and no matter what pay for something.

    If you expect great deals to fall out of the sky or someone to do your tenant homework for you. This is not the group for you.

  • How to Save 100% of your Income tax | Landlord Rescue

    […] also want to point out that after my post I Was Wrong About REIN going out of my way to clarify the error I had made, I did not so much as receive a thank you. My […]

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  • Steve White

    Hi Rachelle,

    I’m a bit surprised by some of the negativity towards memberships and groups posted above. I’ve done a few of the seminars and read most of the books and I think it’s fairly safe to say that you ‘definitely sometimes’ get what you pay for. I’ve done the free seminars and been pressured into signing up for the $50,000 mentoring packages, but have politely declined.

    I’m a fan of Don Campbell and REIN, although I’m not a member. I spent my year’s membership fees on a joint venture purchase of a great find of a cottage rental on the Cabot Trail. Both would have cost about the same. But I will join eventually because they have knowledge and advice on how to do things that I can’t do on my own. Anyone who’s serious about real estate investing knows that investing in yourself and your knowledge is pennies on the dollar when compared to what you can do with that knowledge.

    I think many people who assume that real estate seminars and groups are scams and ‘schemes’ are the same people who sit on the fence all their life saying one day they’ll invest in real estate when the time is right or the right deal comes along, but never do – but are never shy about voicing their opinions on REI. Successful real estate investing often involves creative, legal financing. I’m fairly conservative myself, but think that people who are too conservative or afraid to try new things need to politely go on their way and find a system that works for them, instead of telling everyone else what they need to do.

    By the way, I missed your talk at the Durham REI group. I just joined. How did it go?

    Steve

    • Rachelle

      I was negative when I wrote this because, I had just finished talking to a nice lady who makes about 12$ an hour with perfect credit who had been ripped off for $25,000 by a mentor she said she had met at REIN. She even had a bunch of REIN forms filled out on the property. Unfortunately as it turned out REIN seems to be synonymous with any real estate investment group. Like Kleenex is synonymous with a tissue. She actually met the guy at a free seminar.

      I’ll be honest with you, I like part of Don’s books, there is some great information in there. I don’t like my investment advice mixed up with “power of positive thinking” jargon, I also don’t like anecdotal information. Now Don supposedly has several hundred doors, I’d much rather read about that then some guy just starting out. Now as to REIN membership…I’m not sure it’s worth $1800. I haven’t seen the stuff you get when you join. I’m not sure it’s not worth it either because I haven’t seen it. To my way of thinking I paid about $3400 for my 2 years worth of courses at George Brown to get my property management sheepskin. If I ever do get my eyes on the stuff REIN gives you, I’ll evaluate it in that context. Not from the point of view of would I get value from it…but would someone new, who doesn’t know anything get from it? Would it be worth the money?

      Also I freely admit that I am a very suspicious person. I am not a joiner by nature. The REIN members I have met have been very nice. I don’t have enough information to make a decision about REIN and that’s a fact.

      The Durham REI was great! One of these days, I get my act together and post the entire speech, when I got there a 15 minute speech turned into over an hour. The next time they’ll bring the guy with the hook!

  • Wade Graham

    This is an interesting thread. I have been a REIN member for many years and the membership has served me well. If you are interested in real estate education IMHO there isn’t anywhere better.

    This is not to say that every group doesn’t have its bad apples but as a generalization this is a group willing to help in any way it can.

    I encourage you to check them out as well as some other groups and make your decision from their. I think you find as I did that Don and Co are the best of the best 🙂

    • Rachelle

      Wade,

      One of these days I will take advantage of Ray’s offer to go check out a REIN event. I would also like to check out the material REIN gives out to help new landlords and rate it. I spent two years in school and the tuition was $3400 plus the text books so based on that metric, I’d like to see what’s offered.

  • Shannon Murree

    I’m a Realtor in Barrie which is one of their top towns and places to invest in. I work with a lot of investors and have gone to a lot of “education” investor groups from Rich Dad/Poor Dad, Trump, etc, etc. I have found a place with REIN and I too, initially was skeptical about their intentions (only by experience of other investment groups) until I became a member and attended workshops. For the $, I find tremendous value and never, ever feel “being sold to”. Sure, it’s a business like anything else but the networking opportunities are incredible. The team does an incredible amount of research to find out about real estate trends, etc. Don himself, unselfishly donates all the proceeds of his books to “Habitat for Humanity”. Do you hear of Trump or Kiyosaki doing that?

    I find REIN to be a great bunch of people and have truly made friends. We all seem to be “like-minded” and know that if and when I have a question, someone is always there to answer and offer insight from their experience. I have never found this with any other group I had been involved with and was always “I can tell ya, but it will cost ya”.

    It’s unfortunate that ONE person can ruin something. Honestly, until you walk a mile in a persons shoes or attend a meeting or experience first-hand on something, really truly can’t judge. Also, if the person was just a guest, how could REIN be responsible for another party that was brought under that pre-tense? Unfortunate this happened to your friend. It truly is. I couldn’t imagine handing any money over to anyone until I had my lawyer looking into things and doing my own due diligence.

    Hope you come by sometime and see for yourself. We would truly welcome you.

    Wish you much success and take care!

  • Neil Uttamsingh

    Hi Rachelle,

    Like Shannon and Wade, I am a REIN Member.

    I contribute my success as a real estate investor and as a real estate blogger to REIN. The knowledge that I have gained has been vast and the people that I have met have been incredible.

    The quality of the real estate investors in REIN is very high. You will obviously have your bad apples everywhere. However, REIN operates with such high integrity and moral standards that there is no room for people that are unethical to exist within this organization. Once they are found out, they disappear into the night, as there is no tolerance for unethical actions both by REIN staff and by its members that have higher moral standards.

    REIN is organic, in that the real estate investors who play the game fair, help others, give back, and are action takers are the ones that succeed.

    As per Shannon’s comment Don donates all of the proceeds from his books to Habitat for Humanity. The total of funds donated is now over $600,000.

    Members of the group have purchased over 26,000 properties valued at over $3.2 billion dollars.

    If there was any lingering doubt in my mind as to whether or not REIN was the best of the best in terms of real estate investment groups, those thoughts were put to rest this past weekend when I attended The Property Show in Toronto.

    As you may know, this event was offered for free and put on by ‘Event Syndication’. There were approximately 3,500 people that attended over the weekend. The event was well represented by REIN speakers and investors, including Don R. Campbell and Russell Westcott. Each session delivered by someone affiliated with REIN was packed. In fact, standing room only during many of the presentations. People were there to see what REIN was all about and learn from the best of the best.

    There is no doubt in my mind that REIN is the authority on real estate education.

    Best Regards,
    Neil Uttamsingh

  • Adam Hoffman

    REIN membership is not for everyone.

    If you are starting to examine whether or not to purchase you first investment property it might not be the best starting point – real estate investing books (including ones written by people at REIN) are a great starting point.

    If you have already decided to purchase a property – and currently have the funds available to do so – or already own rental properties – then cost of REIN can be well worth it. Mistakes in real estate investing can be costly, and pro-actively learning how to structure and operate your investment business can net you a lot more money over time than saving on educational costs.

    The more properties you purchase, sell, and operate as well as the more time you are willing to put into doing these, the greater the potential benefit membership in rein can provide.

    As for ethics – All of the content, and people, I’ve encountered working at rein have been tops.

    There are a lot of unethical operators in the seminar business space. There are also a lot of groups with excess fees and thin and poor quality content. REIN is one of the exceptions.
    I can only guess that many of the people that criticize it are unfairly assuming it is similar to other operators – which it is not – or have not been through their required 17 months of membership. The fact that many maintain there membership for many years longer than there initial requirements speaks to the benefits it provides.

    If Racehelle (the blogger of this site) or anyone else has any questions on REIN feel free to give me an email, I’m happy to provide my perspective.

    • Rachelle

      Hi,

      Ray invited me to attend an event a few days ago but I was swamped, I got to PM Expo for only about 3 hours in spite of planning for a month or so to go. I’ll do the January one and report back 🙂

      Rachelle

  • Asanchez

    I guess if you have the invitation you should attend (no brainer). I am not a member (yet) but I got the home-study kits from them (single / multifamily). I found the material to very valuable to me and worth the money.

    I was a landlord with a single unit for many years (20+). Since I got the REIN kits and serious about RE, I now have 3 units and I will be closing on 2 more in early 2011.

    What they offer is a system; decide what you want, get the numbers and take action… repeat. Yes, they have the positive thinking and stuff but take what you need. I can see clearly what I want, need to do and how to do it.

    I might be joining them in January as I find that you need to surround yourself with like-minded people. I find that the worse enemy is you by not taking action, the more educated you are the easier to spot fakes or Debbie downers.

    Happy holidays and thanks for having this blog (keep it real).

    • Rachelle

      Happy Holidays to you too! It’ll be the new year before I can go. I was invited to go but unfortunately, couldn’t make it to the December event it was the same day as PM EXPO.

  • Asanchez

    Well, I am a new REIN member now and closing on a new property as we speak. Lots of information and so far so good.

  • Thomas Beyer

    Unclear to me what the beef is here ?

    Why this level of dissatisfcation ?

    REIn provides a very solid educational foundation for folks wishing to spend soem of their time (or all of it) and soem of tehir money on creating wealth through real estate.

    Solid content, excelelnt networking, 4 events a month you can go to plus a few more annually sprinkled around this vast land of ours, funny, educational, honest, no BS, up-to-date, frequently updated, all-Canadian .. fairly modest fees, no up-selling like other seminar Meisters (Marcus Group, Donald trump, Roch Dad/Poor dad to name a few ..)

    Where is the SPECIFIC problem here ?

    • Rachelle

      Nice of you to come over here and tell us all how great REIN is Thomas. You are a fine member, now just go back to to the REIN forum and make some more friends.

      I know REIN has been very lucrative for you with a steady stream of Limited Partnerships to help finance your projects. Good for you. Maybe all you rich successful real estate investors could hold a collection to help reimburse Patrick Francey and Jared Hope their legal fees for their ill advised attempt to trademark my business name and buy landlordrescue.com providing me with a continual reminder that they keep ripping people off as people mistake me for their “head office”

      I’m not a rich successful investor, you know how I make my money, Thomas? By humping my ass around this city renting properties. Do you know how much time it takes me to make a $7000 retainer to pay for a lawyer to go to federal court??? Do you really think I’m going to be nice about having to pay all that money out Thomas? No Fuck them and fuck REIN too. Until the minute this thing ends I’ll be shouting from the highest mountains and rallying the troops.

      I work seven days a damn week to build my business and some sleazy shithead in a business suit will not take what is mine. I have written 10 books of content on this site by giving up TV and time with my son to build this little baby blog and you can’t have that either. Did you know that 80% of people do research on the internet? I wonder how many members REIN will lose with my little campaign, so “REIN” in your VP and leave me the hell alone.

      I did not start this fight Thomas, but I can assure you I fight for keeps, see I’m the only income earner in my family and this business may be laughable by your rich successful investor standards but it supports my 3 year old and my husband who is sick. So I’m not interested in being civilized or pretending to be nice or being part of a good old boys network. Every time Ray Reuter calls on me to go to a REIN meeting I’m already booked WORKING. And as I mentioned in this post I don’t want to “not like a REIN meeting” because my integrity is more important to me than getting along with you guys.

      • Monte D.

        Once again, please clarify your issue. Is it against REIN, or Landlord Rescue in Edmonton? Theses are very separate and unrelated issues….get off your horse and state the facts!

        • Rachelle

          Wow another cultist saying exactly the same thing… if it were just REIN members sure, but it’s your VP dude…. Patrick Francey.

          • Monte D.

            Cultist? You have to be kidding me…you’re really on a mission here aren’t you. For one, I do not know Mr Francey personally (or any of the REIN brass for that matter). I am involved in REIN by choice, to help me get further ahead financially thru investing in real estate. To me it is the best, non-biased information and training currently available in Canada. Have you ever thought that maybe you could have taken steps to protect your business name more prudently? You seem to be spending a pile of negative energy over a fairly minuscule issue (in my opinion). Is your livelihood the name of your blog? Would I be upset, absolutely…but wow, life is too short to be ranting day after day.

            Anyways, to diverge, I enjoy your your blog posts and value your opinion…without knowing all the information regarding your issue, I just think you’re barking up the wrong tree instead of getting to the root of your problem.

          • Rachelle

            Monte, I could have trademarked the name myself… this does not change the fact that taking my name is a sleazy slimey move. There’s no way that these people didn’t know exactly who I was when they decided to trademark it. They did have an alternative if they loved the name so much of using it themselves being in a different province and all with out trying to gain the exclusive use of the name across Canada.

            By saying I should have protected myself you are blaming the victim. What was that woman wearing when she got raped? Why did she walk down that street? Almost every business does a NUANS search on a name, in fact you pick three names to start with in case the first one is taken…using the same name as someone else knowing they had it first is just wrong. This is understood by ethical business people. This is looking more and more like a deliberate attempt to shut down this website.

            Now if you had to write a check for $7000 or learn how to go to Federal Court yourself to defend against something that had been maliciously done to harm you how would you like it? Big companies actually have lawyers on staff to just deal with trademark issues, but I am not a big company. Oh and the $7000 is just the initial retainer…

      • Lilly

        Thomas Beyer of Prestigious Property has not paid for property he bought in 2010 in Cold Lake Alberta

  • Cameron Rogers

    Another problem with REIN is that if you cancel your membership they will keep charging you anyway. If you refuse to pay after one call from a collection agency they put it to collections and damage your credit. Then it gets hard to get a mortgage which impedes your ability to expand your real estate empire. I hope they enjoy the bad publicity that results from such heavy handed tactics to collect money for services not rendered.